|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 21:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote:CCP
Why does the Maelstrom have the same powergrid as the abbadon and Apoc? It seems its too allow for arties to fit but the amarr can't fit beams and can just about fit pulses seems a bit odd... The Maelstroms role is to brawl as its ASB bonus suggests ... compare it to Hyperion who can't even fit neutrons.... balance anyone????
Ye, shieldmodules require less PG, so you can easily fit artillery. Also, a shieldhyperion can currently fit 8 425mm t2-rails without any issue. What is the problem again? |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
57
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 14:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Jonas Sukarala wrote:CCP
Why does the Maelstrom have the same powergrid as the abbadon and Apoc? It seems its too allow for arties to fit but the amarr can't fit beams and can just about fit pulses seems a bit odd... The Maelstroms role is to brawl as its ASB bonus suggests ... compare it to Hyperion who can't even fit neutrons.... balance anyone???? Ye, shieldmodules require less PG, so you can easily fit artillery. Also, a shieldhyperion can currently fit 8 425mm t2-rails without any issue. What is the problem again? If you haven't noticed it's meant to be shield but it has much less pg than the other armor bs meant for durability.
So it works for what it is kind of intended for (with 5 mids), but it has less PG than armortanking ships? It used to have (almost) the exact same PG as a megathron. It just needed you to fit to many turrets, that's getting fixed. Remember that in the future, the abaddon has to support 8 guns, the rokh has 8 guns, the mael has 8 guns, the hyperion has 6 guns (and a 10% bonus). Under those circumstances, all seems to be pretty nice :) |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
57
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 17:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Can anyone tell me why I should fly a tempest with those changes? I mean Mega/Hyperion/Apoc/Geddon really look beasty, but what does the tempest even do? Aside from having two neuts? |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
58
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 21:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd like to have the deimos wicked mwd-cap bonus :>
To be fair, dualneut does plow through active tanks and is generally great, but couldn't that be reserved for the more brawly fleet pest with the regular pest feeling more attacky then 'like other attack battleships, but projectiles and 2 neuts'? |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
58
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Broxus Maximas wrote:Wow overall I will have to say these BS got the most love of any of the races in this patch. All great ships, that simply isn't the case for the other races proposed changes.
Which changes? The squidification of the typhoon? The plain boredom emitted by the tempest? Or the unchanged Maelstrom? |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
To mare wrote:i would be very happy if CCP switches tempest and typhoon speed (or make them both 130 base speed) even at the expense of some HP, i like the slot layout of the tempest, ofc i would like an extra low or med but since the number of slot for every ship type is fixed i dont think its worth to give up a high, since CCP its going crazy with ship bonus i would give the tempest a +5% rof +7.5% damage maybe at the expense of some drone space make it 25mb 50m space, they would give the thing a 10% edge over other ships as an alpha platform and make the thing a real gankboat like every double damage bonused ships should be.
The double damage bonus is really weak. It's marginally better than a 10% damage bonus that is thrown around as crazy, and it apparently is the one attack ship that is lacking a damage-application bonus, whereas attack battleships are meant to move in situations where extended ability to project damage is more than optional. The Typhoon got a tracking bonus, the mega got a tracking bonus, the apoc got a tracking bonus and the raven got a rangebonus, all next to a damage bonus elevating their effective hardpoint count to something 8-11.
Especially taking into account the slight downtuning of tracking enhancers (which aren't really found on any non-minmatar-battleship), that tempest will be the next stabber at current progression.
As you aren't getting that many fights against solo-targets the overall acceptable tempest-test-server-performance might be inaccurate to translate to TQ. |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
62
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:1) It'll never get the 7th turret slot the Machariel has, not without the removal of drones, and even if it did, that would completely invalidate most of your post as you'd be giving up that 2nd utility high.
2) It'll be significantly more agile than the typhoon, with a higher acceleration. In a shield fit, this could be further improved.
3) It's 6 mids, allowing you to feasibly stack which ever form of EWAR you have on a single target, you could trash the optimal range of a beam apoc to 10-20km using 2x tracking disruptors - whilst having 70km fall-off with 800mm AC's (barrage), or use 2 tracking computers to boost that fall off to +100km - imo it's borderline OP, but I suppose that's a hard fact for some to realise, especially those fixated on point blank DPS. Far from pigeon holing it into a shield fit, it FINALLY allows the tempest to DO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL when fitted with armour, as apposed to a a poor mans *insert another 5 mid armour tanking battleship here*
4) And no, you could fit a smartbomb or lockbreaker in that 2nd high if you wanted to as well. But that doesn't allow you to come close to making up the utility of what you could get with an additional mid.
That would be way overdoing it. People - I believe - don't want OP tempest, but DIFFERENT reasonable temptest. Just a Tempest that doesn't look like a big hurricane, but a ship with it's completely independent reason of existance. Right now it just got no niche left where it outperforms or competes with even a single other battleship hull. This ship is second at best in some disciplines, leaving the impression of just flying a cheap copy of machariel/fleet pest. Or a BS-sized Hurricane failing to profit of it's supposed-to-be-strength, since Battleships are comparably weak pointrange-kiting ships to start with. Especially when having one of the lowest damageoutputs amongst the closerange ships.
|
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 10:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:I still think 8% ROF and a 20% web range per level would give it a n unique role. Does not compete with rapier web range and make the tempest the gate camping BS role. Also its able to do soemthign the tornado cannot.
Webrangebonus has no business at all with a tech I hull, also expanding the tempests teritory over to 'a bit of recon' is something that hopefully won't happen.
And ye, we don't want a glorified battlecruiser, we got the fleet cane now, which should have approximately the same EHP as a tempest - while being much faster. |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 17:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
So much from that naomi I saw already and finally I could bring myself to just hide her posts. In the name of everything taped together, that is a really blind person.
Sooo... gave the tempest another try. Afterwards comparing to a mega and apoc (I only haz t1 large hybrids/lasers), must say it would be best to just pretend the tempest doesn't exist. The hull looks nice, but it's really close to be the phantasm amongst the battleships. |
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 11:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think many people misunderstood my concerns with the tempest. The ship is not useless, it just lacks anything worth flying it besides dualneuts.. which only shine cause it's the only non-crp you can put in there. However, those two non-crp slots are tking awy from potential fitting tht would be needed to justify using a tempest for even a single role it might slip into.
I don't see any reason to give it six mids just like that. 8.5% RoF bonus is just odd and ugly, a fixed tempest needing 8.5% RoF would be a huge questionmark.
Instead of reiterating in your minds of the idea that tempest is a ship filling a non-viable niche (the XL-bttlecruiser one), should go back and look for niches to be filled. And there are two for minmatar! First would be a armortanked gunboat (Fleet issue), second would be either superrupture (tracking bonus) or a proper minimach (6 highslots, weak boni -- so make it FAST at least, not 'as fast as ships that have fast as secondary attribute', but minmatar-fast. Pirateships are said to be plain better, why can't the tempest be an actual predecessor to the mach, with weaker firepower/agility/velocity/lockrange/tank/senors/dronebay. Instead of being a ship that has a terrible slotlayout, unimpressive stats for what it should be, less firepower than a sleipnir even though twin boni and the 'tank'. Ofc the tempest has better eft-dps, in reality though the sleip wipes the floor with any tempest for a much more reasonable pricetag regarding bang for buck (CS are currently at around 260, going downwards)
Tl;dr: Gimping it's stats, tuning down the massive sigbloom first intended and finally just drop it into the attack bs category, stating 'was **** before, look is now equally **** afterwards' is just not going to cut it. (Tempest isn't **** at all, just the other battleships are better right now... so how do you see the tempest faring unchanged against the new BS-meta?)
In all scenarios: Forgive me for doubting the efficiency of snakeimplanted pirateclones with loki/tengulinks making a tempest go 2km/s non-OH and wtf-kiting all of lowsec, let's ignore that point as it is largely irrelevant to the common use of battleships. Also, Kiting-Nega is just as fast.... |
|
Lloyd Roses
Risk-Averse PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
71
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 09:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
I highly doubt no one dev is checking this thread - They'd rather be evaluating the necessity of any further changes.
Odds are though that the tempest will be changed latest again with the 1.1 update, see stabber / rifter :)
It'd be awesome if a dev could just give us a heads up wether or not adjustments are considered, and which! |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 09:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
The tempest is a great MJD-tackler, which is the only thing I found it good for so far. Sadly the cruiseraven is equally good or better at that :( aswell as the domi...
Someone plesae award that tempest with a distinctive trait at last \o/ |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 08:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Undertow Latheus wrote:... .
tl;dr: Cmon, find the Tempest a niche! Niche first, stats later! |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 08:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
The Djego wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Hmm I still just don't see much reason to use a shield fit Tempest over a Maelstrom or Tornado. There is massive overlap between the 3 ships under your proposal which would really squeeze the Tempest and I don't think it would get used much, and I think if your honest you'd agree with me too that it wont get used much either. The 3 ships would simply become different shades of the same colour with the Tempest being in the middle. Not saying it wouldn't work, but just that it wouldn't offer much incentive to use it over the other two ships. A shield Tempest will not archive the tank of a Maelstrom or the speed of Tornado, that is true. However it will be able to take a lot more damage than a Tornado while staying a lot more mobile than a Maelstrom. Buffer is actually quite useful once you consider that you are in a hull that pushes out a quite a significant amount of DPS at medium range and you will be primary more often than you like. As soon as you need to be more mobile than a Maelstrom(basically in any pvp scenario where people don't come to you but the other way around) and need more than a flimsy Tier 3 tank(like when other BS actually shoot back and you are down to 20-30km ranges) the shield Tempest easily becomes a viable option compared the Maelstrom and Tornado. A combination of good speed(for a BS), ok dps, ok range and EHP is actually quite nice to have for many applications.
And we are back at the point:
- second best in many disciplines means you suck it in every aspect - |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
85
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 10:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Those 4 tech-1 battleshipthreads...
Amarr: Our ships are bad because we can't run level 4s perfectly with those cap issues! Gallente: Our ships are bad for level 4s! Caldari: Raven does to little damage to L4 rats! Minmatarr: Need a third battleship!
It sounds like a lot of winmatar whining comes from mostly pvp-people posting here... |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
85
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Malcanis wrote: CCP Rise definitely does listen to feedback.
You are just crying because you didn't get all the toys you wanted.
Wow you're a bad csm... People are not "crying" they are raising a legitimate concern that the tempest, as is currently proposed, is lack luster... The reality is that these "Cries" as you claim, are 100% accurate. The current tempest is bad and will be bad. There is a plethora of suggestions here focused on making the ship better. You'd do best not to discredit this invaluable community feed back.
Tbh, no one coming to my mind ever worked so close to the actual users regarding balancing till now. Just a couple concepts got completely dumped due to player-feedback. That's not what discrediting feedback looks like. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 23:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yarrrr... shall name a tempest 'Black Pearl'
Most likely Black Pearl II after the first attempt to attack anything that shoots back, but must be the price of beauty :D |
|
|
|